Being an Atheist in america isn't easy......

[ToddB]

I figured I would post this here seeing as how it has to do with the whole evolution/creation thing and there is no current event's thread anymore.....

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/14638243/site/newsweek/?GT1=8506&GT1=8535

[Atlas]

Excellent article Todd.

When I first became a skeptic I was antagonistic to all of religion. But I had emerged into skepticism from a rich, warm, experience of love for God.

I am wired in a way that allows a skeptical and cerebral approachs to the unknowns of our existence. Not everyone is. And if you are occasionally lifted into the rich, warm, and loving "blessing of God", why would one want to claim it all to be a lie?

Religion gives hope in ways science cannot. In the face of the death of loved ones science seems to offer more emptiness. We need to recover from grief and if not for religion, I think some people never would.

I really think that if humanity would have had a single understanding of the spirtual realm my attitude toward religion would be more like science. As it is, the religions all call themselves the truth and none has any more evidence than the next.

Militant jihadism does seem to be lifted straight from the pages of the Koran. So too is the personal jihadism that I think all of humanity is engaged in, that of being or aspiring to be 'good'. Each of the religions struggle with the darkness they contain in opposition to their light.

Emotionalism, to a large extent, drives us to act with courage or cowardice or love or any other of the passions. It is too large a part of who we are to deny it. Christianity cannot be made a purely intellectual endeavor - that way lies death. The manipulation of religious ideas and symbols fills us - the scientist who studies the cosmos is only pretending it's a purely intellectual study, it's AWESOME, and we love the deep pleasure we get from understanding no matter what it is we seek to understand.

It's the way we're made - let me rephrase that - the way we evolved. The pleasures of understanding may have contributed to the growth of our brains. And the evolving social realities, that we enhance our survival by working together completes the complex picture that being a human is - at least for me.

[kurious_kathy]

I don't care for that article at all. I really do worry that the deterioration of the USA may only lead God to allow the Muslims to completely destroy us.

Do the words repent mean anything to anyone anymore?

When I say... "I am a Christian"
I'm not shouting "I'm clean livin'."
I'm whispering "I was lost,
Now I'm found and forgiven."

When I say... "I am a Christian"
I don't speak of this with pride.
I'm confessing that I stumble
and need Christ to be my guide.


When I say... "I am a Christian"
I'm not trying to be strong.
I'm professing that I'm weak
And need His strength to carry on

When I say... "I am a Christian"
I'm not bragging of success.
I'm admitting I have failed
And need God to clean my mess.

When I say... "I am a Christian"
I'm not claiming to be perfect,
My flaws are far too visible
But, God believes I am worth it.

When I say... "I am a Christian"
I still feel the sting of pain.
I have my share of heartaches
So I call upon His name.

When I say... "I am a Christian"
I'm not holier than thou,
I'm just a simple sinner
Who received God's good grace, somehow!


Written by Maya Angelou

[Angelic Destroyer]

Religion gives hope in ways science cannot. In the face of the death of loved ones science seems to offer more emptiness. We need to recover from grief and if not for religion, I think some people never would.

That article was rather annoying or rather the subject was anoying. What is so wrong with voting for a gay person over an atheist? It's not like there aern't gay atheists or christian gays so what would they do then? lol

Anyways, from what I have seen Christians seem to have it harder because everyone that isn't is finding some new way to remove things deemed Christian only (like Christmas, prayers or religious artifacts in schools and other public places) and for what? Because they find it offensive? I have a hard time believing that a prayer or a picture of Jesus ina building can be deemed offensive in anyway. What is ofensive to me is people that complain about things like that or the political correctness that seems to be removing anything of Christian origin for the few that are offended. Why has no one complained until now? Probably because they have nothing better to do that complain.

I don't care for that article at all. I really do worry that the deterioration of the USA may only lead God to allow the Muslims to completely destroy us.

Do the words repent mean anything to anyone anymore?

Do you believe that is what Muslisms want to destroy the USA? If so I feel sadness because that sounds to me just like what that government of yours wants, is a holy war when it isn't. If people were more open to world religions the level of fear woud be greatly diminished at least the true enemy would be revealed, which is the government, not the similar original intention of Christianity and Islam which were peacful passive religions, people have twisted and changed them to be war-like philosphies which I am sure Jesus would be most regretful that things got this far too. Nothing is worth killing anyone for especially differing ideologies.

If I took you wrong (which I sincerely do hope I did) sorry but comments like that really concern me in times like this when the whole world is on edge just because some people in power don't agree with others. I wish war were fought between the people who were in disagreement instead of using people as their pawns it would be so much more appropriate, war is stupid and I wish it would die out so we can live life as we were meant to, not worrying about the world ending because of trigger-happy world "leaders" being in disagreement.

Whatever happened to common sense? Oh and it's not just the USA that is affected by all this garbage, the whole world is affected. God doesn't "allow" anyone to destroy anoyone, it's humanity that does it to itself. God doen'st make bombs and guns, people do and God certainly wouldn't point it at anyone whether Muslim, Christian, Hindu, atheist, ect. Believe that.

Ok I need to chill now.

[pop sucks]

I'm f-r-e-k-i-n tired of the same old "science vs. faith" BS. If these scientists were intelligent enough maybe they'd realise that the Bible doesn't contradict any science. Unless they can comprehend it, they should shut up.

And yes christians have it harder. As far as I know, christians are supposed to show respect to other people, so most of the time when there's someone who's being disrespected for his belief, it's the christian, not the atheist.

[Chrono]

Maybe not in america but it's easy being one here in Canada :D

[Maerund]

Maybe not in america but it's easy being one here in Canada :D

It's easy being an atheist in any "free" country. It's easy to be anything almost.

The easiest thing to be is dead.

[surge]

Hmm, seems to me the other way around personally. Atheists make it out like religion is the ultimate evil, they have their own beliefs, and personally I feel like they have more influence in society right now then Christians. Most policies made in society either agree with atheist beliefs or are compromises. Most of the message boards I hang out online with are chock full of atheists. What they call "Christian" are hardly that.

[Lon]

He's agnostic....atheist wasn't a comfortable seat after so many debates. He says he's an agnostic of God like he's and agnostic to fairies.
It might seem like term parsing here but it is important for where to begin discussion (for those who might have missed that subtle difference).

Agnostics accept the idea that God may or may not exist which is a more comfortable seat because it doesn't require a hard stand.

Atheism on the other hand is a hard stand that requires often a strong defensible position because this position holds that no god exists. Because they don't want to talk about any god at all, they paint themselves in a corner on the burden of proof.

I've found most who say they are atheist really mean they are agnostic because the position of an atheist is much harder pressed.

A creationist viewpoint is actually a very natural and an easy position. It's kinda like walking through a house, seeing dinner plates in the sink, socks on the floor, furniture and a television going. The person might not be home but you know he owns the place.

[Tracker]

Hmm, seems to me the other way around personally. Atheists make it out like religion is the ultimate evil, they have their own beliefs, and personally I feel like they have more influence in society right now then Christians. Most policies made in society either agree with atheist beliefs or are compromises. Most of the message boards I hang out online with are chock full of atheists. What they call "Christian" are hardly that.

The biggest influence atheists have is on college campuses, for example, the God Delusion author's lecture at Cal-Tech sold out, and usually the atheists are the main/associate professors in anything science related on a average college campus.

[kurious_kathy]

Hmm, seems to me the other way around personally. Atheists make it out like religion is the ultimate evil, they have their own beliefs, and personally I feel like they have more influence in society right now then Christians. Most policies made in society either agree with atheist beliefs or are compromises. Most of the message boards I hang out online with are chock full of atheists. What they call "Christian" are hardly that.

I am more concerned about America on this issue than the rest of the world. It just seems more and more Americans as they become more educated through our colleges they have lost or questioned their faith. I seriously think we need to support Christian colleges more so this doesn't happen. Iv'e even seen people write books on how to stay Christian in college even though I haven't read any.

I just think Satan has way too much power in the intellects world and that seems to be why more of them profess to be atheists. I have really hit my head against the wall trying to share my faith on JREF. After over a year of trying to talk with them I'm pretty ready to quit trying. It just doesn't seem like they are able to have any spiritual awareness at all.:confused:

[Via Crucis]

It has a lot more to do with an ever-growing permissive and morally relativistic society.

Freedom when abused is not freedom at all; it is license. License is a one-way ticket to spiritual death and eventually, hell. Remember that pride is the root of all sin.

There isn't as much of the black and white anymore; now it is all about gray area. Satan loves the gray area.

And we have to blame ourselves, Christians. Take a look around you and see the division over the most basic of issues like abortion. That one should be a no brainer for the Christian, but instead, some of us still rationalize it.

[bbowman]

It has a lot more to do with an ever-growing permissive and morally relativistic society.

Freedom when abused is not freedom at all; it is license. License is a one-way ticket to spiritual death and eventually hell. Remember that pride is the root of all sin.

There isn't as much of the black and white anymore; now it is all about gray area. Satan loves the gray area.

And we have to blame ourselves, Christians. Take a look around you and see the division over the most basic of issues like abortion. That one should be a no brainer for the Christian, but instead, some of us still rationalize it.

You can follow threads on this site and see where the grey is overtaking everything. We have a thread where some people are saying pre-marital sex is okay and it can't be proven that necrophelia is even wrong. I have seen arguments that state homosexuality is okay and recreational drug use is okay. I will not let my teenage children read this site because of the lack of any kind of absolutes. It is sad, really sad.

[Via Crucis]

You can follow threads on this site and see where the grey is overtaking everything. We have a thread where some people are saying pre-marital sex is okay and it can't be proven that necrophelia is even wrong. I have seen arguments that state homosexuality is okay and recreational drug use is okay. I will not let my teenage children read this site because of the lack of any kind of absolutes. It is sad, really sad.
Oh, I know -- I've read that thread. That's why I said, "I weep for the future" because I knew what road we were going down there. It is all about license. Let's abuse our God given free will, rationalize everything and anything, and yet still call ourselves Christians.

[bbowman]

Let's abuse our God given free will, rationalize everything and anything, and yet still call ourselves Christians.

It's this rationalization that drives me crazy. My wife and I went to a church where the pastor confided in us that he was a practicing homosexual. This was a southern baptist church at that. you can imagine the uproar that caused. I could not in good conscience let that one go and told my father (a pastor of another SBc church in the area.) Needless to say, our pastor lost his position and the church just about folded. The crazy thing is that we had several leaders in the church that knew about him and let him continue to lead the congregation. They ditched us as friends and were mad because we broke the pastors confidence. Standing up for what is right can suck, but in the end, I can look my kids in the face and tell them with all honesty, I was following the word, and the word is never wrong.

[kurious_kathy]

You can follow threads on this site and see where the grey is overtaking everything. We have a thread where some people are saying pre-marital sex is okay and it can't be proven that necrophelia is even wrong. I have seen arguments that state homosexuality is okay and recreational drug use is okay. I will not let my teenage children read this site because of the lack of any kind of absolutes. It is sad, really sad.

We have some definite challenges in the body of Christ. I am very troubled by this and it seems to me that it's the teens that never got good instruction growing up that are in trouble compromising with sins. Just turn on secular TV and we get an earful and eyeful of it. I CAN'T EVEN HARDLY WATCH ANYTHING ON SECULAR TELEVISION ANYMORE.

And I myself know I wasn't setting a great example for my kids til just a couple years ago when I repented. Alcohol and drugs are the beginning of the end. Also sex outside of marriage. People have really messed this up to see so many not be able to admit these things are all issues of living immorally. I'm afraid immorality is just too out of control and it's everyones problem. If it's sin call it sin and repent. And gay marriage/ abortions I DON'T EVEN WANT TO GO THERE IT'S WRONG AND IT'S PAINFUL TO SEE SO MANY MAKING EXCUSES!

[Via Crucis]

The short list:

Abortion
Embryonic and Fetal Stem Cell Research
Homosexuality
Homosexual marriage
Contraception
Masturbation
Premarital Sex
Drug Use
Divorce

[Via Crucis]

It's this rationalization that drives me crazy. My wife and I went to a church where the pastor confided in us that he was a practicing homosexual. This was a southern baptist church at that. you can imagine the uproar that caused. I could not in good conscience let that one go and told my father (a pastor of another SBc church in the area.) Needless to say, our pastor lost his position and the church just about folded. The crazy thing is that we had several leaders in the church that knew about him and let him continue to lead the congregation. They ditched us as friends and were mad because we broke the pastors confidence. Standing up for what is right can suck, but in the end, I can look my kids in the face and tell them with all honesty, I was following the word, and the word is never wrong.
Oh, you are so intolerant!

[bbowman]

Oh how I love that word - tolerance. It is amazing how that throughout history, Christians have been praised for being some of the most tolerant people on earth yet, when we stand up against wickedness, we are hateful, intolerant, racists, bigots, homophobes - did I miss any?

[kurious_kathy]

Oh how I love that word - tolerance. It is amazing how that throughout history, Christians have been praised for being some of the most tolerant people on earth yet, when we stand up against wickedness, we are hateful, intolerant, racists, bigots, homophobes - did I miss any?

Well it is hard to confront something like sin that is so ugly and do it in a loving way. We are told to correct our brothers and sisters in a loving manner. The problem is no one wants to hear it. The truth hurts, don't it.

I'm just very concerned that there are less and less people coming to faith and repenting of anything. It's not repentence if you go out and do it again.

Also if someone says they are and Christina but they don't know scripture they are blowing it big time. Don't people read or believe their Bibles? We are told to be doers of the word!

[Via Crucis]

Oh how I love that word - tolerance. It is amazing how that throughout history, Christians have been praised for being some of the most tolerant people on earth yet, when we stand up against wickedness, we are hateful, intolerant, racists, bigots, homophobes - did I miss any?
The Devil is a liar, a deceiver and a murderer.

John 3:8

'He that committeth sin is of the devil: for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God appeared, that he might destroy the works of the devil.'

John 8:44

'You are of your father the devil: and the desires of your father you will do. He was a murderer from the beginning: and he stood not in the truth, because truth is not in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father thereof.'

[Lon]

Haven't been back to this issue in awhile and reading over the last ten or so posts I've decided:

I LOVE YOU GUYS!

We need an adult forum thread I think :-D

[†Knight In Shining Armour]

I tend to ignore the sciences.Why? Well there pretty amusing, but there not eternally signifigant. Science won't save you from a lake of hellfire, and it certainly won't do you much good in heaven either. Thats just my opinion. I have lots of them and they tend to tick people off.

[Shadowmancer]

Well, science cannot save us, but that doesn't render its study obsolete, anymore than such a lacking quality does so for reading, writing, working, and just about every other secular discipline or activity you can think of....