Need help!

[williamr]

I need help with sound set-up. I was speaking to Lunkwill and he has convinced me that I need a new soundboard, however, for the time being I need help with exactly what to do?

This is the list of musicians:

Drums
Percussion
Bass
Lead
2x Rhythm
Flamenco Guitar
Trumpet
Sax
Clarinet
Piano/Keyboard

2x Choir Mikes
3x Solo Mikes

We have a 12 port soundboard at the moment:eek:
Three good amps
Three good monitors
Very good lead and bass amps.
As many tube combos (I think thats the right term) as we need.

Venue: +- 200 seater hall

I need help, how on earth can I set this up?

[Lunkwill]

are the rhythms acoustic or electric?

[williamr]

are the rhythms acoustic or electric?

acoustic:)

[Lunkwill]

How many in the choir?

[williamr]

How many in the choir?

Six

[Lunkwill]

I think the choir is small enough to go with one mic. You could split the channels something like this by placing groups around single mics.

Channels 1&2 Drums
Channel 3 Bass
Channel 4 Percussion
Channel 5 2x Rhythm, Flamenco Guitar
Channel 6 Keyboard
Channel 7 Sax Clarinet Trumpet
Channel 8 Choir
Channel 9 Lead
Channels 10-12 Solo Mics

Don't know if that would work for you or not, just a thought. You really have your work cut out for you there bro.

[williamr]

I think the choir is small enough to go with one mic. You could split the channels something like this by placing groups around single mics.

The problem is that the two choir are set up differently for male and female voices! I am sure our drums dont need amplification. Could I do it like this:

Channel 1 Bass
Channel 2 Percussion
Channel 3 2x Rhythm
Channel 4 Flamenco Guitar
Channel 5 Keyboard
Channel 6 Sax Clarinet Trumpet
Channel 7 Choir1
Channel 8 Choir2
Channel 9 Lead
Channels 10-12 Solo Mics

You think that would work ok?

Don't know if that would work for you or not, just a thought. You really have your work cut out for you there bro.

I know its gonna be interesting:) I wish I had a pro sound engineer:rolleyes:

[the EDGE]

go get 24 channel board so you can grow into it! If you can spend a couple grand do it, so you do not have to upgrade later, if not get a cheap behringer 24 channel board! Then you can start getting mics and other stuff.


BTW you said 200 seats, but in what room? a gym, church, facility? If you are in a gym, do not mic the drums, bass real piano, trumpet, sax, and do not mic them till you are pushing almost 300 people. Drums are always loud, unless you are using a V Drum kit, then all you need is one channel and take it direct! Thou shalt not share a channel....lol..! the choir could share one mic, but it needs to be an omni direct mic so it can pick up all the voices! Again with the brass and other instruments, unless the crowd is loud, try to have them play without mics, cause you cannot share with those three instruments!

Now is this the worship team, or all the players on the actual team? do they all play at the same time, or do you bring this in one week, and that in another week? I am only asking for that is alot of channels to use my friend, and in this case I go for what the Vineyard says which is ,"simple is better", and take out have of that, but that would just be me.

What you have there is a minimum of 18 channels, if you simplfy it!

Drums 2channels (like Lunk said, if you mic it twice throwing a mic in the center of the kit and then throwing one over the kit as an overhead)
Percussion 2 channels? Are you using congos, djembe, shakers, etc....You cannot share mics with any of those....
Bass 1 channel, unless he or she has an amp, then you do not need one, and have the bass turn it up baby!
Lead guitar 1 channel
2 Rhythm guitars? 2 channels
Flamenco guitar 1 channel
Trumpet Sax Clarinet three channels, and all on hypercardioid mics, so no other instrument can pick up on their mics!
Piano/keys( is this a keyboard, or a piano? Yes it has to be answered, for you have 1 channel or 2 there. If you do have a real piano, again hypercardiod mic, and then send the the keyboard direct.
choir 1 channel omni directional mic!
Every voice gets a mic!
So with that said, each amplified instrument like a guitar needs to be miked. Each acoustic instrument, like flamenco can go direct, but needs a DI box. some of these instruments do not need to be miked until the crowd becomes loud! Then mic

I know this is alot, but this is how you should look at it, and show the worship pastor, and mayeb let them realize that simple is better, if you cannot afoord more at the time. Break down the worship team, so it can break the monotony

[axeman2415]

go get 24 channel board so you can grow into it! If you can spend a couple grand do it, so you do not have to upgrade later, if not get a cheap behringer 24 channel board! Then you can start getting mics and other stuff.

I have to agree with edge on this. You will spend a lot of money on a good board, but you will only do it once. Having more channels is always better than not having enough.

However, I do think there is a problem to consider; while I am certain that most of the musicians understand how to project with their instruments (pareticularly the percussion and the horns), most choir vocalists do not, nor do they understand how to sing without optimal monitor signal. Most people who sing in choirs are volunteers, and though they may have wonderful voices, they do not know how to use the equipment.

Try doing a soundcheck. Ask a vocalist to check the microphone. See if they will go (in a low monotone voice) "check...check...check..." or if they will go "CHECK!" in the volume level that they will be singing in. Will it be loud? yes. But people need to understand that it is only loud when no one else is playing, and if you use your talking voice to check rather than your projecting voice, your levels will seem too low when the whole choir and orchestra plays.

This doesn't have anything to do with how many channels you have, I realize. But, although I agree that is what you ought to have, a finite budget may limit you to less than optimal results. It is important to learn how to maximize your limited resources, rather than use your equipment inefficiently.

BTW, I recommend either the Behringer that edge recommends, or Peavey (which is always great), or Mackie. Now Mackie is very expensive, but well worth it.

[the EDGE]

I will second the axeman too!

[williamr]

BTW you said 200 seats, but in what room? a gym, church, facility? If you are in a gym, do not mic the drums, bass real piano, trumpet, sax, and do not mic them till you are pushing almost 300 people. Drums are always loud

It a Church, but more like a hall. I am with you on this one. If anything I think the drums need to be dampened not amplified. I think you right that the trum. and sax dont need to be miked. They are loud!! I'm un-decided between the real piano and the keyboard!:)

the choir could share one mic, but it needs to be an omni direct mic so it can pick up all the voices! Again with the brass and other instruments, unless the crowd is loud, try to have them play without mics, cause you cannot share with those three instruments!

We have two omni's. should the mike set-up be different for male and female voices?

Now is this the worship team, or all the players on the actual team? do they all play at the same time, or do you bring this in one week, and that in another week? I am only asking for that is alot of channels to use my friend, and in this case I go for what the Vineyard says which is ,"simple is better", and take out have of that, but that would just be me.

It rotates, but very rarely!

What you have there is a minimum of 18 channels, if you simplfy it!

I know this is alot, but this is how you should look at it, and show the worship pastor, and mayeb let them realize that simple is better, if you cannot afoord more at the time. Break down the worship team, so it can break the monotony

Thanks for the advice, I will try a few of those things!;)

[williamr]

Definitely will have to look at new board.

I know what you mean about not using the equipment properly. We have spent so much money but barely get anything out of it. I cant stand the sound that is produced, its frustrating!:o

Thanks for the advice

[axeman2415]

Everybody thinks that since you've got the equipment, it shoudl sound better. Well, they're right, it should. But the poor soundman has to take the blame for other's inexperience and and lack of knowledge.

Personally, I would try to soundcheck the orchestra/band alone, seperate from the choir. You may find out why you are having trouble mixing the sounds. And always mix to the instrument with the least amount of control on it, i.e. the drums. Even if they aren't miked, they still can affect the overall mix, because you still have to mix to the room you are in.

[JaQ]

I've found that miking the drums helps the sound a lot. I'm not talking for amplification purposes, but rather mixing purposes. You only want to add enough of them that they're IN the mix rather than just going by 'stage volume'. even if you just put a mic on the kick and snare, it'll sound like the drums are in the mix. you don't need to mic the whole kit.

[JaQ]

May I suggest a Yamaha MG32/14. It is not a bad board for the price. 32 channels for $1100. Or you might try the MG24/14 for $900 if you need it under $1000.

When we put together the sound system for my church, I was aiming for a Allen&Heath GL2400, financial restrictions made us have to look for alternatives, and I didn't want to cut back on channels.

[alliaphagist]

Our church does mike the drums, but uses a plexiglass shield with some carpet/sound absorbing stuff on it. Then you can control the levels without all the obnoxious loud banging of drums in a hall.

[williamr]

Thanks for the help everybody. I will try as many of the ideas as possible, and maybe start shopping:)

Any other new ideas are more than welcome!

[the EDGE]

take your time, and buy what is really needed, and do not worry about buying bigger, cause you can grow into it!